Tuesday, January 8, 2008

It's About time! Cesar Millan is WRONG!

Finally the truth about Cesar Millan and his training methods are coming out! Professional trainers and behaviorists who use science-based training methods that do not include punishment or any type of physical correction are NOT the exception, we are the norm.

Here is the entire link: http://dogtime.com/cesar-millan-and-ian-dunbar.html

Ian Dunbar is the expert in the field not Cesar Millan. Ian Dunbar has certifications and degrees, Cesar does not. Ian's methods work. Cesar's don't. Please remember when you watch a 30 minute show, NOTHING is solved in 30 minutes and they are NEVER going to show you failure. That wouldn't make for good t.v. Times are changing and soon the world will understand that you don't have to wrestle with a dog's body when you can work with his mind.

From the article (please do click the link and read the whole thing!)
Putting your dog in his place
Cesar's way: Dogs assume either a dominant or submissive role in their "pack." If he doesn't get off the couch when you ask him to, it's your dog's way of telling you that he's dominant and you're submissive.
Why he's way off: The notion of a rigid pack hierarchy with fixed roles between humans and dogs is largely a myth. Dogs are most likely to do what we humans ask when they clearly understand what we want - not as a sign of submission. Patricia McConnell explains: "So many issues - sitting on the couch, coming when called - have nothing to do with social status, any more than how you do on a math exam reflects your social status. A dog who doesn't sit when you ask him to sit - in most cases - simply doesn't understand what you want."
The truth: In groups of canines, roles among individual members are both fluid and give-and-take.

Treating fear with fear
Cesar's way: You can "cure" a dog's fear by overwhelming him with the very stimulus that terrifies him.
Why he's way off: Imagine treating a human's acrophobia by dangling him over the edge of a skyscraper. This technique, called "flooding," actually leads to further psychological trauma in the form of learned helplessness: An animal learns that resistance is futile - his spirit is broken and he ceases to assert himself.
Trish King, Director of the Animal Behavior & Training Department at the Marin Humane Society observes: "In some of his shows, Cesar tells the owner how 'calm and submissive' a dog is, when to me, the dog looks shut down and fearful."
The truth: It may take weeks or months for your dog to truly overcome deep-rooted fear - and setbacks along the way are to be expected.

Snapping the leash or rolling the dog
Cesar's way: Physical corrections - such as snapping a dog's leash or forcefully rolling him onto his back - are an effective way to garner good behavior.
Why he's way off: Physical corrections add to your dog's stress rather than offer instructive information. You may temporarily stun your dog into obedience in the short run, but in the long run, the use of physical force increases aggression and, ultimately, your behavioral problems.
"You can lead with force, like Saddam Hussein, or you can be a benevolent leader to your dog by choosing a style more like Gandhi," says Tamar Geller, trainer to Oprah Winfrey's dogs and author of The Loved Dog. "Your approach will determine the type of relationship you have - and whether your dog acts out of intimidation... or respect."
The truth: Rewarding for the behavior you do want, as opposed to punishing for any number of behaviors you don't want, clearly communicates to your dog what's expected and is far more likely to generate confident, appropriate behavior.

21 comments:

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Scott said...

I do believe in positive training methods. I also believe that we must use a way to correct bad behavior, weather it be a correction using snap of a leash, a word that you teach your dog that means not good. I believe we need to be balanced in our approach towards dogs. We can't use positivity 100% of the time, nor can we use punishment 100% of the time. I believe we can teach dogs a positive way of submission. If a wolf submits by rolling to its back without help from a dominate wolf, then that is instinctual. The submissive wolf also through time developed an understanding from the dominate wolf through time spent. So with that said, if only we teach our dogs while there young to roll over to there back and give praise for such a task, then we should be rewarded with a naturally submissive dog. If we are beyond the point where we have a dominate dog, we are not going to nicely ask our dog to roll over to its back. Dominance is nothing more then control (it has nothing to do with aggression). The dominance theory needs to be reinvented, not shut down. Controlling your dog mentality is the challenge here, as well as remembering the old saying "nothing is for free". We teach the dog to sit, stay, down, over, come, go, easy, relax, chill, no(atz, tsssh) and when they get it right we praise them. All work and no play makes jack a dull dog. After training we reward our dogs with some play time, then we stop it when we say.

About Cesars way:
I feel that he is not all wrong. He does many things with the understanding of the way dogs react and think(or not think but react). He uses body language, he uses trust and he reprograms dogs way of thinking using correction at the right times.

Nicole said...

I absolutely agree with the above comment.

My dog knows how to sit, come, stay, etc. but only choses to do so when she pleases. For example when there is a treat in my hand. The rest of the time? forget about it.

This reminds me of when parents were told not to spank their children, or how they've decided not to fail children in school in case it damages their psyche.

I don't know what shows you're watching, but when the dog is lookin around, tail wagging, no sign of stress, or even plops right down on the ground, I am with Cesar in seeing that as calm, submissive behavior. Just my opinion.

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Maxwell said...

I came to this blog via google. And you're not giving the Dog Whisperer a fair chance.... After those moments where Cesar lays the dog on its back, do you cease watching? Or do you actually listen to the reasons why he's doing what he's doing?

I think your being insanely over zealous, and almost derogatory towards Milan.

Sounds like you need a good leash-tug!

rtfgvb7821 said...

IS VERY GOOD..............................

Haruko said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Haruko said...

Yeah, it's about time, I agree.

Dog owners should realize the simple fact that Cesar's methods may work for aggressive or overly spoiled dogs but may not for any average ones who may occasionally show some problematic behaviors.

TV shows are all about dogs with real hard problems that need corrections.
Applying his methods, esp. the largely misleading pack theory at home could be a disaster.

For example, any vet animal behaviorist would first doubt a health problem if a dog shows a behavioral problem.

Believing it is all about dominance may lead to the failure to notice any underlying physical problem that your dog may be suffering from.

Deshani said...

I agree so so so much!!! positive trainers like Victoria Stilwell have proved that and on her show she tells us not to do the dominance based things (the methods Cesar uses!)

Ljubica said...

Thank god someone is being real about Cesar's methods because he is cruel and bullying frightning the dogs into submission.This man doesn't know anything about dogs.
He is wrong and he sees everything in the wrong perspective.He sees only domination.
I think it is a horrible sick way to look at a relationship.I think Cesar's ways can do damage to a lot of people and dogs and the way they perceive the relationship between humans and animals.

RastaRonin said...

First of all those sweet little dogs you people like to cuddle and treat like babies are natural born killers. Sure many of those useless designer dogs that so many like to tuck into their purses couldn't catch a meal to save their lives.

Real dogs definately have a pack mentality and maybe you all should stop thinking of your dogs as humans and remember they are semi wild animals. Your dog loves the taste of blood but so many deny them that simple pleasure. Wake up humans, dogs need a pack leader, and if you aren't up to the task, because you are weak minded or soft spirited, they will lead you. Simple. Ceasar is right.

So called experts that claim dogs need love, are wrong automatically. A loving parent that lets the child do whatever they want, and never tells them the truth about themselves do more injustice to their own spoiled litter than a parent that disciplines, directs and encourages their child. That is love.

Love dog method is crap!

Kinga said...

This is a load of crap again,ppl forget where to look for help in a behaviorul problem,cesar is right with a lot of his methods because alpha roll is the correct way but assholes r trying to trip just like michael jackson was...some sad bastards just cant take other ppl's success

Kinga said...

btw rastaronin i agree with u with everything except about love,love is a form of energy u project and dogs do like to go to positive energy n they do sense awakened ppl,being the alpha in the dogs life n projecting Love to it,and protecting n show him that he can trust 100% i beieve is not crap,everydog should get love,trust,courage from its owner,not puting him into a bag coz thats wrong to call love!

Ericson said...

ok both of my dogs are rescues, One was a fear biter, and one is highly motion reactive. Chased cars, bikes, kids anything that moved. I never had to choke, rool, or kick my dogs to get them to behave. The motion reactive dog can now take a down in the middle of a field of running sheep and the fear biter performs regularly as part of our frisbee dog club and happily meets little kids after the show.
I have always trained with food or toys as the reward. My dogs work with me, not for me. They regularly work for me all day long without treats. They do it for the praise of the owner they love. My fear biter learned that people aren't scary by being rewarded for positive interactions. Now if I'd used Cesar method and strangled or kicked my dog when she started to growl or snap at someone it would ONLY increase her fear and therefore increase the likely hood of an unexpected bite. She would simply learn to be even more scared of me than the other person and that sort of behavior leads to unexpected bites and more bites when the "dominant owner (what a bunch of crap)" is'nt present. Fear based training only works if the person you are afraid of is present. My dogs would work themseves to death if I asked them to. Try that with any dog thats lived under dominance training.

k9pack said...

Replace the term dominance with influence. I have a page dedicated to what I call the science delusion at www.k9pack.com. Behaviorists are taking dominance completely out of context and attempting to invalidate based on conditioning which is only half truth as it aligns with influence type. Being popular is not the criteria for truth when it comes to how people are connecting with dogs. Millions of dogs are being destroyed and behaviorists are not even asking serious questions beyond their owner focused agenda.

Bona Fide Couture said...

why is it that people are still not understanding what Cesar Milan does? He does not TRAIN dogs!! He helps people to adjust their PROBLEM Dogs behavior. He doesn't train the dog to sit and stay and blah blah blah. He doesn't come to your home to teach your dog to roll over. He comes to your home to show you that the type of behavior that this particular dog shows is not acceptable. There are people out there that live with a dog like that everyday and love it so much that they would never want to put it down, but yet it runs their life. I don't agree with beating a dog or kicking it, but I do agree with CM methods of correction. I think people focus too much on his correction and not on the fact that he says....exercise, discipline, affection. allow your dog to work for you, work with u, want to please you. once they have completed that task correctly then u give them affection. If they have not done it correctly, then u show them again and again how you want it done, then u give affection. He is not telling you to observe unwanted behavior, then smack your dog around. Please people, LISTEN to what he is saying. Sure his english isnt perfect but his heart is there. He has helped so many people with dogs that NEED help, not ones that need to learn how to sit and stay. THINK PEOPLE THINK!

oh and another thing I love abt CM, is that he always thinks abt the NOW. So many people think abt what if, and when...if my son fell off his bike I would ask him if he was okay and then make him get right back on it again. Isnt that what you are taught to do? If you fall off, then get back up there again and try again...think abt the NOW and not what happened or what will happen. Think about NOW.

softrocksully said...

VERY biased blog! Cesar has NEVER said the dog is fixed when he leaves. He always says that it is a work in progress, a process, and leaves tools for the owners to work with. Why would you offer such an obvious lie as that?

Furthermore, you talk about a fearful dog that shuts down because of flooding. Hmmm...in the episodes I've seen, the dog was happily taking part in what scared him before. Like the Newfoundland dog that was afraid to go upstairs, now happily sleeping in the room with the children upstairs.

If the blog was just the tiniest bit unbiased, perhaps you could have changed my outlook a bit. Lying exaggerating and resulting to slanderous methods only make me look at the blog as something only slightly above the tabloids.

Piet said...

If you can give your 10 year old child a 'rehabilitated' rottweiler after just three months training, that was scheduled to be euthanised because of extremely agressive behaviour, then I think you know how to handle dogs.
As a blogger you can deny this fact, the way you choose how to react on the method of Cesar Milan, shows that your observation is biased and absolutely not neutral and analytical.
The majority of Cesar Milans method is correct. Why?
Consistency is in all cases important. He is consistent
Dogs need rules, boundries and limitations.
Do not fuel a dog that is in a panic, agressive or insecure state of mind by giving it attention. Reward the proper state of mind.

Either pro or against the method of Cesar Milan, there are many things everyone should agree about.

Deborah said...

I think you are wrong. Cesar's methods work and I have three dogs to prove it. Don't be a hater just because you aren't successful like Cesar. Remember people always compare themselves to the best.

Boss&Bella said...

Why does only one method have to work?? Why does one person have to be right and the other has to be wrong? Why can you not open your mind and see it from both points. I am against animal cruelty, and I do not believe Cesar Millan's way is cruel. It just common sense if you look at how a pack of dogs or wolves behave.
I think if we were to study both ways, then dog owners would have a much better experience with their dogs, and their dogs would have a much better experience with their owners!
Everything he says about energy is very true. If this is a subject that you do not quite understand then I can see why you don't agree with his methods. Everything is energy my friend, one day that is going to mean something to you.

Jared Edwards said...

Simply put...you're wrong. This is the same type of mentality that bred the existence of the "Occupy Wall Street" movement. Parents are raising their kids with the mindset of, "Reward when they do something good and ignore when they do something bad." This is wrong and leads to self entitlement. This works similarly in dogs. I've used a method similar to Cesar's with my dogs and it works. You don't avoid correction when correction is needed.